Discussion

@Tutanota xmpp...

@Tutanota @delta and @xmpp

@Tutanota DekuSMS for SMS encrypted

@Tutanota #xmpp

@Tutanota like tox chat

@Tutanota XMPP. Open, standard, federated protocol from 1999. We need interoperability now more than ever. Maybe @threemaapp too, but it's centralized.

@Tutanota

Drop the term 'instant'. Make sure it is distributed.

Pick one. You do not get both.

@Tutanota
I keep hearing about #SimpleX but background checks on who is behind it go back to some random Russian guy based in London. Not the best recommendation for either company director or country of registration.
There's claims that it's been audited but only by one company "Trail of Bits".
Then there's SimpleX disclaimer which specifically states that it may be neither secure or safe.
Doesn't instil confidence.

keychat.io has encryption similar to signal but they purport to change keys per message instead of per thread in an attempt to make it even harder to reconstitute the thread should anyone attempt to recover it.
Also, Keet is freaking awesome so far.

@Tutanota My go-to is Beeper, both on Android and Linux.

@Tutanota keep in mind element is a terribile client for matrix. Better for mobile are fluffychat, element X. For desktop nheko or cinny.

@Tutanota As it has not been mentioned I shall bring up veilid, it is not really finished but it is usable. https://veilid.com/

@Tutanota Hello, I see you already had a lots of nice answer.

Here is my point of view: interoperability could be see at the low protocol level or a highter level, lets say at the 'service or company' level.

When today the EU talk about interoperability it's on the company level. Of course it's better if the protocol is the same or at least interoperable. But the real challenge here is to agree to collaborate.

You god a lot of response talking about protocols: matrix, xmpp or email. In my point of view that the easiest part of the interoperability, even if it already not simple.

And I was not aware that SimpleX is interoperable in any way!

I'm working on a project of service that use mainly xmpp to let us talk between xmpp, matrix and sip users ( https://mio.chat/en/ 😉 )

@Tutanota #DeltaChat is truly one of the most secure with its decentralized servers.

@Tutanota SimpleX is not clean in terms of its relations with the far right.

@Tutanota very funny considering Tuta is not even interoperable with PGP encryption

@Tutanota SimpleX is a British company and falls under British law. The British government can issue a new secret order, known as a Technical Capability Notice (TCN), requiring SimpleX to create a backdoor. Nobody will know.

@Tutanota XMPP would be great, of course.

Element/Matrix creates lots of metadata, compared to XMPP, so that does not seem to fit well into the lineup of Tuta.

SimpleX recently did some weird Blockchain stuff, so they're out as well.

XMPP is the internet standard for instant messaging, literally. There's an RFC for that.

Also, there are still not enough pulic (paid?) XMPP services around, so people struggle finding one they trust if they don't self host.

XMPP is reliable as well.

@Tutanota
I really enjoyed how you built tension in this scene. The pacing feels natural and engaging. i will love to know more.

@Tutanota We mostly use Element in our friend group. It's been great for keeping conversations siloed.

@Tutanota honestly an interoperable messenger has to be the fact that it can communicate across other servers and/or platforms, instead of covering just element, cover the matrix protocol, the underlying and see/cover https://docs.mau.fi/bridges/index.html and https://www.beeper.com/ (beeper uses Matrix for the underlying core too)

Thank you all for the advice and help. Much appreciated. ❤️

@Tutanota @delta and when talking about element don't forget to talk about the privacy leak everywhere in their system, and the fact that 90% of group are unencrypted allowing the server to follow talk without showing in the user list.

@Tutanota Cheogram! Can have encrypted chats over OMEMO. Check out XMPP. You can self host it as well.

@Tutanota I guess most interoperable from these is Element. You can use it both for daily communication with friends, and for work or working on projects. Most importantly you can self host it, so actually own your data, which is a big plus for it. Yet...for communication with friends I'd still choose Signal, as its more popular, has better performance and privacy mechanisms (in comparison to matrix public instance). Well and for journalists simplex definitely shines. So I'd say it all depends on purpose, but objectively Element has the ability to be any of those 3 if done right.

@Tutanota When talking about interop, don't let anyone tell you that they can't become interoperable for security reasons: MLS exists, Google and Apple support it for RCS, and Matrix is migrating there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messaging_Layer_Security

Nothing to tell people who want "just something to use right now", more for an "Outlook" section.

@Tutanota Hello Lena, are you guys *secretly* building one?

@Tutanota Moin Lena, also #SimpleX sollte auf jeden Fall dabei sein. Finde ich toll, wenn du das tust. Ein immer noch unterschätzter Messenger der auch dezentral gehosted werden kann und meiner Meinung nach "der" Messenger schlecht hin.

Das noch junge Projekt @simplex versucht genau wie Tuta die Privatsphäre und deren Daten ihrer Nutzer und Nutzerinnen zu schützen.

Vielen Dank, für deine Arbeit. 😊🌼🍀

@Tutanota for me matrix is the best.

Even if your relatives don’t use it you can bridge other places to it.

Interoperable and encrypted

@Tutanota

Nextcloud Talk?

@Tutanota Maybe XMPP?

https://xmpp.org/announcements/open-letter-meta-dma/technical-briefing/

@Tutanota there is @delta. private instant messenger based on email infrastructure. Perfect !

@Tutanota briar & signal. I used simplex & deleted after 2/3days.. So laggy voice and video quality very bad
Ithink conversation chat looks good.

@Tutanota Hi, Lena from the marketing department, what do you mean by "combine"? Where there's a collective farm, there's chaos.

@Tutanota I could be thinking completely differently than where you are, but I would go for Matrix rather than Element. Element is cool, but it's the protocol behind it (Matrix) that truly makes Element interoperable. Without Matrix being an open and federated standard, Element would just be another closed chat app that doesn't allow people to speak with anyone unless they use Element. With Matrix I can speak not only to anyone on the Matrix network, but also a bunch of other bridged chat protocols. Incredible!